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Edited text disappears (sometimes)

This problem concerns some CafeTran basic things, but maybe I am not the only one who has this problem.


Following scenario:

  • badly segmented external file (sdlxliff in this case)
  • sentence is in 2 segments
  • translate and confirm segment 1
  • translate segment 2, seeing that there needs to be changed sth in segment 1 and going up without confirming
  • change segment 1, go back to segment 2
  • text has disappeared

Possible solutions or non-solutions:

  1. this only happens in external files (sure?), so it won't be resolved
  2. this only happens sometimes in external files (I just wanted to reproduce this at the same segment, but the text has remained still there), so it won't be resolved
  3. a shortcut (yay!) for confirming and remaining in the same segment, not only a clicky-clicky dropdown menu


1 person has this problem
11 CommentsSorted by Oldest First

What do you mean by "going up without confirming"? It is natural that if you don't accept/confirm you edit and jump somewhere else, your edit will be lost.  Just accept you edition either by moving up or down.


This means that when going up/down the edit is "saved", while clicking on segment numbers makes the edits disappear?

Good to know this, but is this behaviour consistent or desirable?

 

As I wrote above, this is concerning some basic things. If CT had a segment state Edited (besides Empty, Translated, Checked), this problem would not be there. But honestly, I think this would ramp up the CPU and/or memory load, constantly checking for changes in any active segment, and an issue that seems to be Java-based (typical argument: "this does not happen in any other tool"). And how do other Java programs behave?

At least this should be properly documentated.

 

> This means that when going up/down the edit is "saved", while clicking on segment numbers makes the edits disappear?


For CafeTran native projects, you can click a segments number and the edit is saved too. I might implement it for other tools' projects in the future.


> typical argument: "this does not happen in any other tool"


This typical argument always makes me create something totally different (read "better and more intuitive") that any other tool. I wouldn't say that dozens of segments statuses (as in other tools) is an intuitive thing or a good concept. Quite the contrary, I find it confusing and counterproductive.



> This typical argument always makes me create something totally different (read "better and more intuitive") that any other tool.

What about making the concerned segment blink in red and white and emitting a sound that is nomrally used to evacuate a building?

No seriously. The point of "there is no edited status in CafeTran" is one of the basic principles and irritating for many novice users. When doing the things above (or maybe only copy source to target or only insert one letter into a 300-words-segment), the segment state is Translated. Period. You can handle this state of things if you are used to CafeTran, but it is not really intuitive.

Similar to this: There is no state Pre-translated. Pre-translation appear in the TM tab, but they are not actively inserted into non-active segments. Things like: "this is the file and this is the ruling TM, you do not need to check it" work faster in other tools, as you do not need to go through 100 % matches while editing (you should check these external 100 % matches at some time, of course), you can sort by match quote and go through the 99-95% matches rather fast. Just as an example. 
>  many novice users

Absolutely not true. Novice users are scratching their heads presented with any statuses for segments. Novice users come from Word or LibreOffice where sentences/segments are plain and simple. You rather mean users pre-conditioned by years using other CAT tools. Please do not expect CafeTran copying other CATs. You will find no feature in CT implemented like in other CAT tool.


> the concerned segment blink in red and white


By that argument, all CATs should look and behave the same. I hope you don't really mean that. In the other forum thread, I made my point clear that variety in life is a good thing even when it comes down to as basic as driving a car (left-hand side vs. right-hand side). Period.

Hum, I do not think that eg. Studio, memoQ or Wordfast Pro look the same. For sure, CafeTRan is totally different, alone from its GUI.

Just for the records: Is there any idea or at least an estimation how many users come from other tools and how many are novices?


> You will find no feature in CT implemented like in other CAT tool.


Difficult question, though I assume you have in first instance another understanding of this sentence than me (and you are right with your understanding that I assume). Basically you could name many features any other tool has (grid, segment editor, TM, TB, web interfaces, kind of DB).

>  Is there any idea or at least an estimation how many users come from other tools and how many are novices?


I have never made any survey on the above.

> For CafeTran native projects, you can click a segments number and the edit is saved too.


Not (always) true for Excel files (in native format). Maybe this would not have happened if this would have been resolved. When moving through oddly segmented phrases this might happen (in Word I would join these segments, in Excel not).

Besides the question of another segment state Edited (where any changes are immediately kept and the segment state changed) I have found a solution for the Plebeian part of the CafeTran community that needs to do external files from time to time to subsist ;-)

Simply type Cmd-Z (on Mac or the corresponding key on any other OS) several times. Strange enough, there comes first the state before the edit and then the last state before leaving the segment. Don't ask why.
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