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I am considering to close down the wiki because...

Because of the combination of the constant negative feedback that Hans van den Broek ("Woorden") has been giving me here, at Proz and at other places, the threat that he made today ("Prepare yourself for the worst in 2016"), the responsibility that I have for the safety of my family in view of this what I feel as a massive threat and recent postings from newbies cannot find zilch in my wiki, I am considering to close down the wiki.



Hans,


Over the years of CafeTran development, I have received some negative feedback from users (including from you) that turn out to be extremely positive in the long run. There is also no way you can satisfy everyone and there will be always users who complain about this or that. I am also sure you received far more positive comments than negative ones.


Igor 

Igor,


To be honest, only one: from Masato, who once wrote that he had read everything. That was the only positive response ever.


All others were negative. Outdated, inaccurate, chaotic.


Hans

Please add me too.  I could never be able to use CafeTran without the Wiki. It will be always outdated, who cares, there are always gems to find in it. Please do not close it. 

http://necco.ca/dv/index.htm was always a great resource for Deja Vu users, And http://cafetran.wikidot.com/ is such a great resource for CafeTran users.


Selcuk

Outdated, inaccurate, chaotic.


Even if some of it is true, that is not your fault. It is mine! It is impossible to keep the Wiki or any other form of Help updated and accurate with that pace of the development I put. I would like to keep the coming CT 2016 main interface frozen. I don't plan to introduce any revolutionary changes. Now, I have been finishing the work on the auto-propagation of segments with different numbers and non-translatable fragments, and some slight polishing of the menus. Nothing dramatic. Masato's idea of the match bar between the segment windows is also nice but I will only start experimenting with it for now to see how it fits in various layouts.


Igor

I think that would be a real shame Hans, as it is still the best resource for CT info we have.


Can't we take a democratic vote and perhaps politely ask woorden to leave cafetran.freshdesk.com? Sorry vd Broek, but if you can't be nice, you can't expect others to want you around.


Michael 

A new, and hopefully a happy year. For me, democracy is a choice. I am free not to read some posts. Voting has nothing to do with democracy as evidenced in my country. If I don't like the tone in a post, I simply do not reply, Try it, you will love it. 

MB: ...as it is still the best resource for CT info we have.


Of course it's the best resource we have, it's the only one. Late 2013, Igor promised to start writing a manual. He didn't. Only a few months ago, he promised to try to add the essentials to the KB. He didn't. I suppose the above counts as "offensive language."


That said, I check and use the Wiki all the time, and regularly refer to it. In public. Also, I never suggested the Wiki should be shut down. Hans CafeTran Wiki only threatens to do this to get even more attention since his call to get me ousted hasn't been honoured at all (so far). Whatever happens, he'll not close it down.


H.

Ha ha, I'll tell you what democracy is: if six out of 10 people say he goes, he goes.


Having said that, I'm also a ridiculously tolerant guy when it comes to nonsense like this, and must admit that if I had to choose, I mean vote, I don't think I could ever vote to have someone removed for merely being a giant douche bag. After all, isn't it punishment enough to be a douche bag in the first place? Must we add insult to injury, and make said douche bag's life even more douche baggy by publicly shaming him? I mean, hasn't he already brought enough shame on himself for the rest of his douche bag life?


Michael


PS: Oh yeah, and one more thing: isn't it one of the coolest things about the CafeTran forums (in their various forms and guises) that we are much more free here than on, say, Proz.com, to be our famously anti-social selves? Not that I necessarily equate the fact that I like hiding in my little office cave here at home with being a mean, grumpy, sarcastic old party-pooper. It's definitely possible to be a tad people-shy, yet polite and friendly.

Igor:

>I have received some negative feedback from users (including from you) that turn out to be extremely positive in the long run.


Yes, true. Though, I don't think that this feedback was aimed to be negative, rather the opposite ('wouldn't it be better to ../can you solve it this way?'). And, I hope that I never used insulting language to you or call you a dumbo etc.


Because that's exactly the point for me. I don't mind to be criticised. Of course not. But I cannot accept to be constantly insulted and called names. I don't think it's the sender's right to just do so, for the benefit of any progress. It's the recipient who defines the limits here. What is acceptable for him/her?


You have requested our valued colleague mr. Hans van den Broek to go and wash his mouth. The fact that he didn't find it necessary to respond to that very request, in combination that the worst is yet to come for me in 2016 isn't very promising, is it ...


Yes dear Michael and Selcuk, freedom is speech is one of the greatest goods. Even when the leading forces in Poland and Turkey are trying to restrict it. But decency of speech is also a great good, in the end it stimulates freedom of speech, since people will no longer be afraid to get torched publicly.

Good morning Hans,


Even in our recent posts here, I have been vehemently criticized by Hans vdB for making everybody happy with some choices in the development - "I hate it", he said. I never felt insulted but rather amused and maybe a bit perplexed. Yes, he sometimes uses some straightforward language such as "bullshitting" meaning talking nonsense. I have never considered a problem. It is just his blunt and unceremonious way of opposition and making his point. I noticed that he called names to big companies but not to people - at least in this forum. I am pretty sure that his "prepare yourself for the worst in 2016" means nothing else than "prepare yourself for my complete different opinion on things". He is not preparing a war paint. Or is he? :) 


Igor

Come on Hans, please keep calm and move on. The wiki is - though being outdated here and there - a really good resource that in many, many aspects can compete with a manual.

It seems that the Wiki site is "frozen" now (not closed yet).

Maybe Hans takes an „Auszeit“.


It would be a tragedy if Hans really steps off.

What I'm writing now is not directly related to this topic, nor is it a proposal for solution. I feel that I must say something because Hans L. mentioned me earlier in this topic ("positive response").

At the first glance, I didn't understand which posting of mine was received positively by him. But I just recaptured some memory (I hope I'm not mistaken).

I once told him that after reviewing almost all the Wiki articles, I would like to suggest that the site provide some kind of quick start guide for newbies.

It is an encyclopedia, no doubt. But what newbies need right now is, in most cases, not an encyclopedia with a large index, but a handy manual that simulates an ordinary (basic) translation process (e.g., of a single Word file) and navigates them through it step by step, answering the common questions they may have.

Some may say that the Wiki has a good index which newbies can refer to. But, I think there are newbies who don't even understand which article on the site would help them out of the trouble they are experiencing right now. For those who don't have a larger vision of what they are supposed to do with this software, an encyclopedia is only embarrassing.

That's the end of this story. I can't recall how our discussions developed afterwards.

Cheers,
Masato

 


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